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sirronstuff
Bible Belt Laker Fan
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 8442
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| last stand wrote: |
| sirronstuff wrote: |
| ScoobySnackz wrote: |
Sure.. but Chicago has to be high on Odom and I'm not sure they like him in the magnitude of giving up both Deng/Hinrich. not everyone is Chris Wallace.
Scooby - |
You're english has improved remarkably. I think the carrot you used did the trick.  |
dude we know its you
what you do may be fun
but its annoying as hell
we know its you |
yah, ummmm ok. Never had a user ID that acted that dumb before sorry. Copped to all of mine. This ain't one of them.
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2008-2009 Lakers 69-13
Team Kurt: Kurt Rambis, LMBO-Man, Telephone Guru, UGLYJUSTUGLY, Beef Jerky, Rep EERC, E*Trade, Verbal Milk2, Mrs. Norris, ....(Thinking of the others) |
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ScoobySnackz
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 318
Location: Dog-house
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not saying it will happen.. but lets say Sasha bolts to Europe what happens with our off-season plan with our 2 key-bench players gone?
Scooby - |
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Aceiz2fresh
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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ScooooooooooooBY
U seem familiar for some reasoN.
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ScoobySnackz
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
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Location: Dog-house
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm glad you have good sense of superstition but I'm no one. brand new here trying to make new friends now lets please stay on topic emplay won't appreciate it.
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sirronstuff
Bible Belt Laker Fan
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 8442
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ScoobySnackz wrote: |
I'm glad you have good sense of superstition but I'm no one. brand new here trying to make new friends now lets please stay on topic emplay won't appreciate it.
Scooby - |
new guys wouldn't know who emplay is. or that he is respected around these parts
BUSTED
now for your story about how you've been lurking....
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2008-2009 Lakers 69-13
Team Kurt: Kurt Rambis, LMBO-Man, Telephone Guru, UGLYJUSTUGLY, Beef Jerky, Rep EERC, E*Trade, Verbal Milk2, Mrs. Norris, ....(Thinking of the others) |
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ScoobySnackz
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 318
Location: Dog-house
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hoopsworld has been around for a while so thats how I know him.
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sirronstuff
Bible Belt Laker Fan
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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but of course.
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2008-2009 Lakers 69-13
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
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kobe_008
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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emplay: im just puzzled.why would we be trading odom if we would want to sign Bynum for extension?Odom's expiring would be benificial in signing Bynum.
Could we sign Bynum even if we are already at the max.
and would there be anyway that we could send the big contracts of luke and vlad to other team and get expiring ones? |
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emplay
Clublakers Analyst
Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 2784
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| that's up to Dr. Buss - his wallet |
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UKUGA
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: |
UKUGA - at the time the Bulls had beaten the Heat in the first round of the playoffs - and everyone loved Hinrich and Deng. The Bulls ultimately had a package of Deng, Gordon and Noah available to the Lakers that LA was willing to work with - but Kobe vetoed it.
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well, that makes sense (from the Bulls perspective). Kobe did the Lakers a huge favor by vetoing that deal.
Gar-bage!
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Lance Uppercut
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 2205
Location: Here @ C.L
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? 
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DC_King
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 232
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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No. Deng does not play "D".
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? |
Because it's the only reasonable thing to do. Hinrich can (and has) played SG. We already have Fisher. We already have Farmar. Fisher's PT will decline and Farmar's will grow.
The Lakers aren't going to stunt Farmar's growth to play Kirk Hinrich. If you want Kirk Hinrich at PG, that's fine, but then you'll have to suggest a way we move Derek and I just don't see that happening. |
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 9971
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? |
Because it's the only reasonable thing to do. Hinrich can (and has) played SG. We already have Fisher. We already have Farmar. Fisher's PT will decline and Farmar's will grow.
The Lakers aren't going to stunt Farmar's growth to play Kirk Hinrich. If you want Kirk Hinrich at PG, that's fine, but then you'll have to suggest a way we move Derek and I just don't see that happening. |
A lot of the deals I've seen have Farmar going out, but if we held onto him, you use Hinrich similar to how Sasha was used prior to last year as a combo guard except he'd start at the 1 with D-Fish being his primary backup. Sometimes you go small by sliding Kobe to the 3, Kirk at the 2, and Fish or Farmar at the 1.
This would only be temporary as well since Fisher is no spring chicken and can't be expected to go through another season fairly healthy while playing as many minutes as he did last season.
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Lance Uppercut
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 2205
Location: Here @ C.L
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? |
Because it's the only reasonable thing to do. Hinrich can (and has) played SG. We already have Fisher. We already have Farmar. Fisher's PT will decline and Farmar's will grow.
The Lakers aren't going to stunt Farmar's growth to play Kirk Hinrich. If you want Kirk Hinrich at PG, that's fine, but then you'll have to suggest a way we move Derek and I just don't see that happening. |
Fisher is going nowhere. If we were to get Hinrich is so he can start and an
aging but effective Fisher would be the back up. Farmar would be included in
a trade.
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? |
Because it's the only reasonable thing to do. Hinrich can (and has) played SG. We already have Fisher. We already have Farmar. Fisher's PT will decline and Farmar's will grow.
The Lakers aren't going to stunt Farmar's growth to play Kirk Hinrich. If you want Kirk Hinrich at PG, that's fine, but then you'll have to suggest a way we move Derek and I just don't see that happening. |
A lot of the deals I've seen have Farmar going out, but if we held onto him, you use Hinrich similar to how Sasha was used prior to last year as a combo guard except he'd start at the 1 with D-Fish being his primary backup. Sometimes you go small by sliding Kobe to the 3, Kirk at the 2, and Fish or Farmar at the 1.
This would only be temporary as well since Fisher is no spring chicken and can't be expected to go through another season fairly healthy while playing as many minutes as he did last season. |
Well, ok, I suppose you can move Farmar instead of DFish, I just don't see why the Lakers would do that. I mean, in his second year, he was a top 10 6MOY candidate. He's made huge strides in his short career already. He's basically, the Lakers PG of the future unless an absolute stud became available.
I just don't see the Lakers giving up on Farmar, to get Kirk freakin Hinrich. Do we really want his extra 2 PPG that badly?
If we were getting Baron Davis, ok then I could see a case for moving Farmar. But for Kirk Hinrich? He's a glorified Marcus Banks (in terms of CL love).
Farmar put up 9 PPG in 20 mins last year
Hinrich put up 11.5 PPG in 31 mins last year.
The Lakers have Farmar locked in at less than $2 million for the next two seasons.
This is the type of move I might consider after this season (or the next) depending on how Farmar responds with increased playing time but making this move right now only really makes sense to provide some offseason entertainment for fans. |
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
The Lakers would be one of the worst possible destinations for Deng career wise. He won't put up the numbers and a guy that young doesn't want to be a 4th option.
Same with Hinrich. Most likely he will backup Kobe and they'll give up on Sasha but that's a lot of money to spend on a backup to Kobe Bryant who routinely is in the top tier of MPG.
I actually don't see why the Lakers would move Odom for these guys at all. All it's going to do is make them unhappy at the lack of playing time and/or shots and that could hurt the Lakers more than help them. |
Why would Hirich, a starting PG, back up Kobe? |
Because it's the only reasonable thing to do. Hinrich can (and has) played SG. We already have Fisher. We already have Farmar. Fisher's PT will decline and Farmar's will grow.
The Lakers aren't going to stunt Farmar's growth to play Kirk Hinrich. If you want Kirk Hinrich at PG, that's fine, but then you'll have to suggest a way we move Derek and I just don't see that happening. |
Fisher is going nowhere. If we were to get Hinrich is so he can start and an
aging but effective Fisher would be the back up. Farmar would be included in
a trade. |
I'm sorry but the Lakers are not giving up Farmar to get Hinrich. Farmar is the Lakers' Leandro Barbosa and he's locked in at $1.9M for the next two years. He's here to stay because he's improving and he's cheap and he's already good enough to be 1st PG off the bench, but he's only getting better. |
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10scott10
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5235
Location: looking for the royal room entrance
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
Well, ok, I suppose you can move Farmar instead of DFish, I just don't see why the Lakers would do that. I mean, in his second year, he was a top 10 6MOY candidate. He's made huge strides in his short career already. He's basically, the Lakers PG of the future unless an absolute stud became available.
I just don't see the Lakers giving up on Farmar, to get Kirk freakin Hinrich. Do we really want his extra 2 PPG that badly?
If we were getting Baron Davis, ok then I could see a case for moving Farmar. But for Kirk Hinrich? He's a glorified Marcus Banks (in terms of CL love).
Farmar put up 9 PPG in 20 mins last year
Hinrich put up 11.5 PPG in 31 mins last year.
The Lakers have Farmar locked in at less than $2 million for the next two seasons.
This is the type of move I might consider after this season (or the next) depending on how Farmar responds with increased playing time but making this move right now only really makes sense to provide some offseason entertainment for fans. |
the advantage with kirk, isn't his points, it is his size and defense. two things that farmar hasn't shown much of since he came into the league
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: |
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^Exactly.
knm131, perhaps you could say Farmar > Hinrich on offense (that's debatable though when you consider what offensive firepower each player was/wasn't surrounded with last season), but on defense there's no denying that Hinrich >>>>>>> Farmar.
Kirk has the ideal size that PJ looks for out of a Triangle PG as well. He's also a better shooter than he showed last season and would get more than his fair share of wide open looks on this team. The deal makes a lot of sense for us and if Chicago can't agree with Deng, it becomes more attractive to them as well.
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Danny Ainge
Hurricane Relief Fund Contributor
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 9351
Location: El Dorado Hills
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Lay off poor Scoob Y'all, he is who he says he is.
Anyway, If I may speak to this Deng situation. Chicago would be foolish to let Deng go, I believe he ought to be a cornerstone on this franchise with Rose for years to come. Hinrich and Gordon will see the door first. Hinrich is one of those guys I really wouldn't mind unloading Odom for. We know hes perfect for the triangle, big guard, handles well, plays good d, hits open shots. Plus you can probably steal a Chicago leftover like Thabo Sefolosha who is as Sky mentioned "one of the best on the ball defenders in the league" Thabo can legitmately play positions 1-3. He probably makes Sasha expendable too.
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Aceiz2fresh
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: |
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edit:
last non- related post.
promise
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
^Exactly.
knm131, perhaps you could say Farmar > Hinrich on offense (that's debatable though when you consider what offensive firepower each player was/wasn't surrounded with last season), but on defense there's no denying that Hinrich >>>>>>> Farmar.
Kirk has the ideal size that PJ looks for out of a Triangle PG as well. He's also a better shooter than he showed last season and would get more than his fair share of wide open looks on this team. The deal makes a lot of sense for us and if Chicago can't agree with Deng, it becomes more attractive to them as well. |
Totally agree with you that Hinrich > Farmar defensively. That's barely even arguable! Hehe.
Farmar is also the only Laker with enough stones to take the rock and look to put it in the basket. Odom won't/can't. And neither can Pau. Bynum hasn't shown an ability to score by creating his own shot.
Hinrich straight up for Odom doesn't work so Chicago will have to add more -- and I just don't believe the Lakers (nor I), want to give up on the Bynum/Pau/Odom tallest frontcourt in history of the NBA for Kirk Hinrich to come off the bench.
If the Bulls do want to move Hinrich for relief, I'd think they'd be better off taking Denver's $10M trade exception for Hinrich plus filler, rather than taking on a player of Odom's caliber who they will have to play (reducing the minutes of either Gooden, Thomas, or both).
In either case, unless you move Fisher, Hinrich is but a backup and an expensive one (with a length contract at that).
And come on, let's be realistic, the extra piece to make a Hinrich for Odom deal is NOT going to be Luol Deng. I mean, this doesn't make ANY sense for Chicago really. |
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Lance Uppercut
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 2205
Location: Here @ C.L
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
^Exactly.
knm131, perhaps you could say Farmar > Hinrich on offense (that's debatable though when you consider what offensive firepower each player was/wasn't surrounded with last season), but on defense there's no denying that Hinrich >>>>>>> Farmar.
Kirk has the ideal size that PJ looks for out of a Triangle PG as well. He's also a better shooter than he showed last season and would get more than his fair share of wide open looks on this team. The deal makes a lot of sense for us and if Chicago can't agree with Deng, it becomes more attractive to them as well. |
Bynum hasn't shown an ability to score by creating his own shot.
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Lakerman JSJ
Clublakers Moderator
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
| And come on, let's be realistic, the extra piece to make a Hinrich for Odom deal is NOT going to be Luol Deng. I mean, this doesn't make ANY sense for Chicago really. |
On the surface it doesn't make much sense for the Bulls, but we're not in a vacuum here.
It begins to make sense as negotiations with Deng continue to drag out and they remain far apart on a new deal. When it gets to the breaking point it seems to be approaching with the news of an ultimatum coming from Deng, Chicago has to start thinking about a sign-and-trade so they don't lose him for nothing next season. It just makes good business sense to review all options before deciding a plan of attack.
Hinrich on the other hand is completely expendable from Chicago's standpoint. They just drafted Rose as their PG, they are paying Hinrich a lot of money more than a few years into the future as a very expensive backup or a poorly-fitting SG. Shedding his contract (while getting a talented player with a large expiring deal that fits onto their team like Odom) to attract a big name free agent to a great city like Chicago is absolutely worth it for the Bulls to do.
Still a very unlikely deal IMO, but not difficult to see why Chicago would consider it.
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knm131
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 4566
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
^Exactly.
knm131, perhaps you could say Farmar > Hinrich on offense (that's debatable though when you consider what offensive firepower each player was/wasn't surrounded with last season), but on defense there's no denying that Hinrich >>>>>>> Farmar.
Kirk has the ideal size that PJ looks for out of a Triangle PG as well. He's also a better shooter than he showed last season and would get more than his fair share of wide open looks on this team. The deal makes a lot of sense for us and if Chicago can't agree with Deng, it becomes more attractive to them as well. |
Bynum hasn't shown an ability to score by creating his own shot.
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Ok let me re-word. Bynum has shown an ability to score by creating his own shot, but he hasn't shown the ability to do it reliably and consistently.
The majority of his baskets are assisted, or they're offensive rebound putbacks, wouldn't you agree? |
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Punk-101
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 8798
Location: San Clemente, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| knm131 wrote: |
| Lance Uppercut wrote: |
| knm131 wrote: |
| Lakerman JSJ wrote: |
^Exactly.
knm131, perhaps you could say Farmar > Hinrich on offense (that's debatable though when you consider what offensive firepower each player was/wasn't surrounded with last season), but on defense there's no denying that Hinrich >>>>>>> Farmar.
Kirk has the ideal size that PJ looks for out of a Triangle PG as well. He's also a better shooter than he showed last season and would get more than his fair share of wide open looks on this team. The deal makes a lot of sense for us and if Chicago can't agree with Deng, it becomes more attractive to them as well. |
Bynum hasn't shown an ability to score by creating his own shot.
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Ok let me re-word. Bynum has shown an ability to score by creating his own shot, but he hasn't shown the ability to do it reliably and consistently.
The majority of his baskets are assisted, or they're offensive rebound putbacks, wouldn't you agree? |
I admittedly am not the sharpest tool in the shed for interpreting stats, so please correct me if i misread these.
Bynum assisted fgs : 58%
Farmar assisted fgs : 60%
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West
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 919
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Before I shout "No Deng, No Deal", let me look at this...
LO & Vlad(or Walton) for Hinrich, Thabo & Gooden... hmm...
Move Kobe to the 3, Gooden eases the loss of Turiaf and could be a 1 year rental. Thabo gives solid D, maybe not lock-down, but not head-case either...
Chicago can play with their lineup until Feb, and if LO doesn't work or doesn't like Chi-town, they can ship him and his valuable K before the deadline.
Fish/Farmar
Hinrich/Thabo
Kobe/Ariza/Walton (or Vlad)
Pau/Gooden
Bynum/Mihm/?
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JoeHeff
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 163
Location: born in LA, now in AL. yeouch
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| last stand wrote: |
emplay do you think portland will become a factor in the deng sweepstakes
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JoeHeff
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 163
Location: born in LA, now in AL. yeouch
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Rumors: Chicago Stalemate |
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| UKUGA wrote: |
| emplay wrote: |
Remember they tried to get Hinrich/Deng/Noah for Kobe – if they could get 2 of those guys for Odom and pieces – they might actually consider it.
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If that was really what the Lakers wanted, and the Bulls didn't jump on it, then the whole front office should be fired. |
Kobe said no... didn't he?
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